Vojna v Ukrajini

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Trigger

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13. avg 2007
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Rus je agresor, tu ni dileme. Zakaj je rus napravil/dela kar trenutno dela, je pa hudo pereča debata.

Kakorkoli obrnemo, kakor sedaj "zahod" hoče postaviti rusu meje, je tudi rus želel postaviti zahodu meje. Zahod je v določeni točki prestopil še sprejemljivo mejo rusije. Ti so odreagirali tako kot so. Zahodu so jasno in glasno postavili mejo. Kaj je pa zahod naredil? Ukrajince je dobesedno pustil z spuščenimi hlačami. EU in ZDA so mislili in pričakovali, da se bo rus uklonil in zlomil pod grožnjo sankcij. Gambling kateri se ni izšel.
Ne podpiram rusa in obsojam vsakršno agresijo. Po drugi strani pa tudi ne razumem, zakaj je bilo zahodu (EU, NATO in ZDA) potrebno testirati relativno krhko premirje v evropi? Zahod je na račun hudo koruptivne države (Ukrajine) grizel in dražil jedersko velesilo katera je za češnjo na vrhu torte še zagotavlja večino energentov EU-ju.
Za sedaj je konflikt Ukrajina/rusija še vedno relativno lokalen. Vpliv konflikta je pa globalen. Trenutno evropi še ne teče voda v grlo v obliki pomanjkanja energentov. Kaj bo v roku par mesecev bomo pa videli. Kot sem že napisal v tejle temi, zna biti da bo kak EU politik prej visel za "jajca" sredi bruslja kot pa putin v moskvi.

Politika do rusije in nasploh evropska energetska politika je bila tako zgrešena, da se je za resno vprašati kaj za boga počne bruselj. Kar se je dogajalo oz se še dogaja v luči kovida in sedaj v luči posebne vojaške operacije iz deneva v dan ropa velikansko večino evropejcev po par % premoženja iz dneva v dan.
Tipkovnica bojevniki pa ploskajo. Na drugi strani pa vse več in več EU državljanov vsaki dan težje in težje shaja.

Redukcije in pomanjkanje sta za EU bili stvar preteklosti. Sedaj pa vse bolj in bolj postajata nova realnost.
Z pomočjo Ukrajini, zahod kolikor se sliši kontradiktorno samo povečuje število žrtev in destabilizira evropo kot tako. Moje mnenje je, da bo rus v Ukrajini dosegel karkoli si je že zadal. Milijardne pomoči zahoda samo odlagajo neizbežno. Žal.

Za sedaj imam občutek, da se zahod (povprečen državljan) na krilih MSM ne zaveda s kom smo dejansko v vojni. Da rusi niso neka "vukojebina" na bližnjem vzodu oz afriki.
Zahod si lahko misli da je ves svet na "naši strani". Resnica pa je, da ima rus ogromno cono vpliva in posredno ali neposredno vpliva na velik del sveta. V kolikor se bo velesilo (kar rusija nedvomno je kljub slabi propagandi), so lahko posledice nepredstavljive (jederska vojna, lakota, energetska revščina, pomanjkanje, hiperinflacija, razpad EU,......). Kolikor si zatiskamo oči, bo z rusom potrebno doseči neke vrste dogovor.

Historia est Magistra Vitae
Čeprav evropo bolj malo izuči če sploh kaj.
 

darkstar66

Guru
1. apr 2013
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@ darjan

A nam prosim razložiš tvoje videnje upravičenosti napadov na Irak (drugi napad), Libijo, destabilizacijo Sirije, Afganistan. Pričakujemo izčrpen in z dejstvi podpet odgovor. Hvala že vnaprej.
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
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A nam prosim razložiš tvoje videnje upravičenosti napadov na Irak (drugi napad), Libijo, destabilizacijo Sirije, Afganistan. Pričakujemo izčrpen in z dejstvi podpet odgovor. Hvala že vnaprej.
Nikjer tam si “zahod” ni pripajal ozemlja k maticni drzavi ampak je vzpodbujal lokalno demokraticno vodstvo, ko seveda ni bilo mozno saj so zal ljudje, zaradi prejsnjega rezima, ostali na razvoju srednjega zahoda
 

Trigger

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13. avg 2007
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Nikjer tam si “zahod” ni pripajal ozemlja k maticni drzavi ampak je vzpodbujal lokalno demokraticno vodstvo, ko seveda ni bilo mozno saj so zal ljudje, zaradi prejsnjega rezima, ostali na razvoju srednjega zahoda

Po zahodnih "vzpodbudah" gre vsem tem državam mnogo bolje kajne?

Aja, njihov prejšnji režim je kriv..........da je zahod dobesedno pokradel in uvedel nadzor nad surovinami, napadenim državam "ugodno" prodal kredite za obnovo v teh državah ni omembe vredno.

Tipkovnica bojevnik z plašnicami..........rus slab, slava Ukrajini, ZDA rules...........
 
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darjan

Vulkanizer
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Clarke went on to say the explosion in the Russian-held town of Nova Kakhovka was "the biggest that we've seen so far".

"The Ukrainians targeted an ammunitions depot at Nova Kakhovka which is at the end of a rail junction on one of the bridges over Dnipro river," he said.

"It was huge and that particular explosion the Ukrainians say was created by their high mobility artillery rocket system (HIMARS), which is their system."
 

darjan

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ferdo

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3. sep 2007
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Ljubljana
hmpg.net
@ darjan

A nam prosim razložiš tvoje videnje upravičenosti napadov na Irak (drugi napad), Libijo, destabilizacijo Sirije, Afganistan. Pričakujemo izčrpen in z dejstvi podpet odgovor. Hvala že vnaprej.
Libija:
UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05785522 Date: 01/07/2016 RELEASE IN FULL CONFIDENTIAL April 2, 2011
For: Hillary
From: Sid
Re: France's client & Qaddafi's gold
1. A high ranking official on the National Libyan Council states that factions have developed within it. In part this reflects the cultivation by France in particular of clients among the rebels. General Abdelfateh Younis is the leading figure closest to the French, who are believed to have made payments of an unknown amount to him. Younis has told others on the NLC that the French have promised they will provide military trainers and arms. So far the men and materiel have not made an appearance. Instead, a few "risk assessment analysts" wielding clipboards have come and gone. Jabril, Jalil and others are impatient. It is understood that France has clear economic interests at stake. Sarkozy's occasional emissary, the intellectual self-promoter Bernard Henri-Levy, is considered by those in the NLC who have dealt with him as a semi-useful, semi joke figure.
2. Rumors swept the NLC upper echelon this week that Qaddafi may be dead or maybe not.
3. Qaddafi has nearly bottomless financial resources to continue indefinitely, according to the latest report we have received: On April 2, 2011 sources with access to advisors to Saif al-Islam Qaddafi stated in strictest confidence that while the freezing of Libya's foreign bank accounts presents Muammar Qaddafi with serious challenges, his ability to equip and maintain his armed forces and intelligence services remains intact. According to sensitive information available to this these individuals, Qaddafi's government holds 143 tons of gold, and a similar amount in silver. During late March, 2011 these stocks were moved to SABHA (south west in the direction of the Libyan border with Niger and Chad); taken from the vaults of the Libyan Central Bank in Tripoli. This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide , the Francophone African Countries with an alternative to the French franc (CFA).
(Source Comment: According to knowledgeable individuals this quantity of gold and silver is valued at more than $7 billion. French intelligence officers discovered this plan shortly after the current rebellion began, and this was one of the factors that influenced President Nicolas Sarkozy's decision to commit France to the attack on Libya. According to these individuals Sarkozy's plans are driven by the following issues:
a.A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production,
b. Increase French influence in North Africa,
c.Improve his internal political situation in France,
d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world,
e.Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi's long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in,Francophone Africa. )
On the afternoon of April 1, an individual with access to the National Libyan Council (NLC) stated in private that senior officials of the NLC believe that the rebel military forces are beginning to show signs of improved discipline and fighting spirit under some of the new military commanders, including Colonel Khalifha Haftar, the former commander of the anti- Qaddafi forces in the Libyan National Army (LNA). According to these sources, units defecting from Qaddafi's force are also taking a greater role in the fighting on behalf of the rebels.

Who the fuck is Hillary :)?
 
15. jan 2019
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Mislil sem da ne zivimo vec v zaplankanem srednjem veku, ampak se priblizujemo neki globalizaciji in da prebivalstvo neke drzave ni omejeno samo na te meje oz se ne tezi k temu.
Guess I was wrong, drzave kot so rusija, kitajska to vsak dan lepo dokazujejo, ves ostali svet je pa failal glede tega v korona časih :(
zda poklala po svetu in nagrabila kot nobena druga sila, pa jih še kar ližemo
 
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