malaysian airline part 2

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Richtigstellung: Um das hier veröffentlichte Bild ist eine erbitterte Diskussion entbrannt, ob es sich um eine Fälschung handelt, oder nicht. Neueste Recherchen haben ergeben, dass es sich bei diesem Bild nicht, wiederhole nicht um eine Satellitenaufnahme handelt. Vielmehr ist dieses Foto von einem Spionageflugzeug aufgenommen worden, das sich in einer Höhe von etwa 14 Kilometern aufgehalten hat. Das Kampfflugzeug ist keine MIG 29, sondern eine SU 27. Das ändert nichts Wesenliches an den folgenden Ausführungen, zeigt aber, dass in dieser Gegend noch viel mehr abläuft, als wir erfahren dürfen.

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Wir sind ein gutes Stück weitergekommen. Wir sind jetzt in einer Phase, in der wir Gespräche führen. Von Angesicht zu Angesicht. Einem solchen Gespräch gehen Wochen der Anbahnung voraus. Meist über Mittelsmänner. Wir müssen sehr vorsichtig sein.

We have progressed a long way. We are now in a phase in which we are holding talks. Face to face. Such a conversation go weeks of initiation advance. Mostly through middlemen. We must be very careful.

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Ja. Wir haben viele Dokumente erhalten. Korrespondenzen zwischen Behörden. Viele Indizienketten. Vielleicht ist auch schon der alles entscheidende Beweis dabei. Nur: Wir können ihn noch nicht als solchen erkennen, nicht belegen, dass er echt ist. Fest steht, wir haben sehr gute Fälschungen erhalten. Denn mal waren für den Abschuss die Ukrainer, mal die Russen und mal die Separatisten verantwortlich. Es gibt also ein großes Interesse, uns aufwändige Fälschungen als echt zu verkaufen.

Yes. We have received many documents. Correspondences between authorities. Many lines of evidence. Perhaps even while the all-important evidence. Only: We can not recognize it as such, does not show that it is genuine. One thing is certain, we have received very good fakes. For let the Ukrainians, Russians and even the times the separatists were responsible for firing. So there is a great interest to sell us expensive fakes as genuine.

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Wir haben jedenfalls viele Hinweise, dass die BND-Theorie stinkt.

We certainly have a lot of evidence that the BND theory stinks.

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Das habe ich nicht gesagt. Ich glaube nur nicht an die Beweisführung. Da wird falsch gespielt. Der absolute Gau wäre doch, wenn herauskäme, es waren die Ukraine. Keine Absicht, aber ein Versehen. Aber es wurde vertuscht. Wäre dann die uneingeschränkte Unterstützung des Westens für die Regierung in Kiew noch tragbar? Wohl kaum. Und anders herum. Was wäre, wenn den Russen eine direkte Beteiligung nachgewiesen werden könnte? Wo doch der Westen gerade auf Deeskalation setzt. Und wenn es die Separatisten waren? Dann ist es eine ominöse Gruppe ohne Staatsapparat, der in Regress genommen werden könnte. Das wäre für alle Parteien die einfachste Lösung.

I did not say that. I just do not believe in the evidence. Here the game wrong. The absolute Gau would be if came out, it was the Ukraine. No intention, but an oversight. But it was covered up. Would be the full support of the West for the government in Kiev still acceptable? Probably not. And the other way around. What if the Russians a direct participation could be detected? Where is the West but just to de-escalation. And if it were the separatists? Then there is an ominous group without a state apparatus that could be made liable. That would be the easiest solution for all parties.

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Scoop of the year! #Malaysia prosecutors have proof & will indict #Russia's "highest authorities" for providing men & missile to down #MH17.

1/3 #Malaysia prosecutors have established chain of command, will indict #Russia Def. Minister #Shoigu, Chief of General Staff Gerasimov,

2/3 Commander of #Russia Army Salyukov, an officer and 2 NCO's of the Russian Army, who fired the Buk and a bunch of #Donetsk rebel leaders.

3/3 #Putin will get off the hook for "diplomatic reasons"... #Malaysia discussing now with #Netherlands, #Australia when to go public. #MH17

Source: #EU diplomat, who is part of discussions re. possible #Russia/#Putin reaction and thus possible dangers to #Ukraine

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Uporabnik Pac_Man pravi:
Ampak je zelo problematično obtožit jedrsko velesilo, da je s svojim raketnim sistemom in posadko v sosednji državi sestrelila letalo s 300 dušami.

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July 20, 2014

“A buildup of extraordinary circumstantial evidence … it’s powerful here,” said Secretary of State John Kerry, a former prosecutor, and it holds Russian-supported rebels in eastern Ukraine responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, with the Kremlin complicit in the deaths of nearly 300 passengers and crew members.

“This is the moment of truth for Russia,” said Kerry, levelling some of Washington’s harshest criticism of Moscow since the crisis in Ukraine began.

“Russia is supporting these separatists. Russia is arming these separatists. Russia is training these separatists, and Russia has not yet done the things necessary in order to try to bring them under control,” he said.

In a round of television interviews, Kerry cited a mix of U.S. and Ukrainian intelligence and social media reports that he said “obviously points a very clear finger at the separatists” for firing the missile that brought the plane down, killing nearly 300 passengers and crew.

“There’s a buildup of extraordinary circumstantial evidence,” Kerry said. “We picked up the imagery of this launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from. We know the timing, and it was exactly at the time that this aircraft disappeared from the radar. We also know from voice identification that the separatists were bragging about shooting it down afterward.”

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Can you explain what you experienced on July 17th?
"That day did not foretell anything special would happen. In the morning I woke up and went to my work. At four ó clock in the afternoon I arrived home. And at 16:20 we heard an explosion. The first explosion was not very heavy. 15 seconds later, something like that, there was a second explosion, which was louder and it made the windows shake."

What did you do when you heard the explosion?
"Explosions were no exception anymore. But this was totally different, that explosion. It did not sound like anything we heard before. I immediately wanted to look where the sound came from. What had exploded? Where? What? How? I ran to the covered balcony. I looked around en saw nothing.

I photographed that white trail in the air. At that moment I did not know what it meant. For me it was just a white trail: from the horizon up into the clouds where it diverged. Only after a while it became clear what it was."

...

You were there alone?
"I was the only one on the balcony. But the other inhabitants all were also on their balconies. Behind every window you could see a face."

There are more people who saw the trail at that moment?
"Yes, yes"

...

Do you still have the camera with which you took the photos?
"I contacted a friend of mine and gave him the photos, including the originals. That friend contacted the SBU and they were interested in the photos. He handed them over to the SBU. After that I had to explain the details of the photo to them and hand the camera over to them."

...

And after that you went to Kiev?
"Yes, in the beginning I directly spoke to with the SBU. After that representatives of the international investigation committee contacted me via the SBU. That was beginning of August, when I also handed them the camera. THe SBU didn't need it themselves and gave it to the Dutch researches. They had asked for the camera."

Did the researchers talk to you?
"Yes, I talked extensively with the researchers of the international committee. Those were two researchers: one from the Netherlands and one from Australia. We talked about three hours and it was recorded with a video camera."

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