Osama bin Laden je mrtev

Qshtr

Fizikalc
22. avg 2011
477
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če jim verjameš, pač verjemi. Če greš pa pogledat v koran je pa tole:

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Poglej kje bi lahko našel rozine z velikimi očmi in joški, po vrhu pa še deviške :valjamse: Saj veš, kontekst pravijo da je potrebno pogledat.

V hadise se mi pa trenutno ne da pogledat.
 

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Qshtr

Fizikalc
22. avg 2011
477
79
28
ferdo

Sem šel preverit od kje ti tale stavek:

Za enega najpomembnejših principov v islamu najbi veljal ihtilaf, »načelo razhajanja v mnenjih«.

Zgleda da je od tukaj:

http://kud-logos.si/2017/temeljni-pojmi-islama/

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Nisem prebral vsega kar je tukaj napisano, na hitro sem opazil tale odstavek (naj bi bil iz Korana 5:32)

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Ker se mi je zdelo malo sumljivo sem šel preveriti v original. Zdaj ali avtor laže ali zavaja težko rečem. Je pa poln odstavek takšen:

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Kako priročno je izpustil, da je napisano namenjeno za "children of Israel". Uganeš kdo je to? Hint: niso muslimani.

kako si že napisal tisto o citiranju? :valjamse:

Aja takole:

Citiranje po željah in potrebah ti gre od rok, kot vsakemu verrniku, ki vidi samo to kar mu kažejo.

Lažejo ti, Ferdo. :valjamse:
 
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ferdo

Guru
3. sep 2007
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Ljubljana
hmpg.net
5:32 -
1. It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to Muhammad's people.
2. Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens). Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
Vir tega je:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/about.html
Answering Muslims is a Christian apologetics website dedicated to responding to the questions, objections, and arguments of Muslims. The site is run by Christian debaters, lecturers, and writers who have a special interest in Islam.

"Seveda nekateri muslimani na vse pretega želijo "interpretirati" Koran samo na en način - večinoma so to religijski fundamentalisti in islamistični skrajneži, ki so začeli shario ideologizirati in izrabljati kot politični instrument. Trenutno so pri tem zelo uspešni, še posebej, ker so jim v veliko pomoč ubermensch desni rasisti."(recimo tvoja stran bi se verjetno z lahkoto vpisala pod to oznako)

Muslimani pa pravijo:
The above verse states that if any person were to kill another human, if not for murder or corruption (mischief) it is as if killing whole of humanity. The shedding of blood is prohibited (Haram) in Islam, unless it be for spreading mischief. The mischief in the Quran entails murder, armed robbery and rape, as the next verse (Q. 5:33) states.

Mimogrede zakaj bi v koranu specifično judom prepovedovali nekaj? To je knjiga za muslimane? (a nismo nekje omenili, da so prepisovali eno od drugih? "“Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole World.” - ni koran)
 

Qshtr

Fizikalc
22. avg 2011
477
79
28
5:32 -
1. It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to Muhammad's people.
2. Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens). Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
Vir tega je:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/about.html
Answering Muslims is a Christian apologetics website dedicated to responding to the questions, objections, and arguments of Muslims. The site is run by Christian debaters, lecturers, and writers who have a special interest in Islam.

"Seveda nekateri muslimani na vse pretega želijo "interpretirati" Koran samo na en način - večinoma so to religijski fundamentalisti in islamistični skrajneži, ki so začeli shario ideologizirati in izrabljati kot politični instrument. Trenutno so pri tem zelo uspešni, še posebej, ker so jim v veliko pomoč ubermensch desni rasisti."(recimo tvoja stran bi se verjetno z lahkoto vpisala pod to oznako)

Muslimani pa pravijo:
The above verse states that if any person were to kill another human, if not for murder or corruption (mischief) it is as if killing whole of humanity. The shedding of blood is prohibited (Haram) in Islam, unless it be for spreading mischief. The mischief in the Quran entails murder, armed robbery and rape, as the next verse (Q. 5:33) states.

Mimogrede zakaj bi v koranu specifično judom prepovedovali nekaj? To je knjiga za muslimane? (a nismo nekje omenili, da so prepisovali eno od drugih? "“Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole World.” - ni koran)


1. Da je to moja stran si si gladko izmislil in mi podtaknil. To ni moja stran, niti nisem iz nje črpal ali se nanjo skliceval. Verjetno si jo zguglal v 2 minutah in ji prilepil etiketo "verjetno ubermensch desni rasisti", zagotovo maš objektivne kriterije da kaj takega napišeš. :poreden:

Ker sem skeptičen do tega kaj piše na raznoraznih straneh grem ponavadi pogledat v njihove vire. Zato sem dal direktni citat iz Korana, kjer je jasno napisano, kaj je bilo sporočeno Judom (se sklicuje na njihove zapise, Mohamed je vedel za judovske zapise). V naslednjem verzu (5:33) alah daje navodila muslimanom - boš opazil da ni rekel da je namenjeno "children of israel".

Npr. tukaj je ozadje iz Tafsirja (Al-jalalain). Jasno je napisano, da je 5:32 namenjen judom in govori o tem kako je bilo povedano njim. Kdor se vzdrži ubijanja, je tako kot da bi rešil cel svet.

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V naslednjem verzu pa je dogodek iz časa mohameda. Skupini ljudem je najprej pomagal (dal piti kamelji urin in mleko), ker so bili bolni. Ko jim je bilo bolje, so ubili mohamedovega pastirja in ukradli kamele. Ko so jih ujeli mohamed ni rekel, da kdor se vzdrži ubijanja, je tako kot bi rešil cel svet. Uganeš kakšen zgled je dal? Tudi zato je povedal da je verz pred tem (5:32) namenjen judom, pri njemu pa bo drugače. :bonk:


Če se z interpretacijo korana še lahko nekako izvlečejo (kjer jim uspe), pa jim pri zgledu mohameda to ne uspe več. To sem zdaj že nekajkrat ponovil. V koranu lahko piše tako, da je mogoče obrniti besede na milejšo interpretacijo. Dejanja pa govorijo povsem jasno (zabeleženo v hadisih). Mohamed je zgled muslimanom za vse večne čase.

2. Pokazal sem ti, kako lažejo ko citirajo Koran, ker si tako jasno povedal kaj meniš o citiranju po željah in vernikih, ki vidijo samo to kar jim kažejo. V tem primeru ko si vernik ti, ki slepo verjameš temu kar en napiše kot citat iz korana, je pa zadeva čista, ane? :valjamse:

3. Kritiziranje mohamedanstva ni rasizem. Če to trdiš, si smešen. Čakam, da me še direktno obtožiš "ubermensch desnega rasizma" zaradi kritiziranja islama. Podtikaš mi že.
 
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Priporočam knjigo Resnica, miti in legende o judovstvu, krščanstvu in islamu, avtor Vladeta Janković