Napetost v Ukrajini - Krimu

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Izbrisan uporabnik #488

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Uporabnik darjan pravi:
Kako pa sploh vemo, kaj ljudstvo tam hoče, in da je to res želja ljudi in ne zgolj rusije, da se vzhod loči od ukrajine?

Pri nas smo imeli legitimen volilen proces, kaj pa tam? Zdaj če neki zamaskiranci skačejo okoli in se tepejo s UA vojsko, še to ne pomeni, da si to večina ljudi želi?

Imeli so referendum in ljudje so povedali svoje.

Kijevu pa to ni ustrezalo in je poslal tanke. Na srečo so dobili pomoč...
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.252
7.048
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Tebi se zdi "referendum", kjer sploh ni bilo registra volilcev in ljudje so lahko volili večkrat, legitimen?
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.098
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Dokaz za to trditev se lahko najde kje? Kolikor se jaz spomnim, je bil največji problem referenduma to, da je bilo zraven cel kup "opazovalcev" z orožjem (pro-ruski uporniki) in da je nekdo baje med prisluškovanjem ujel del pogovoa na pro-ruski strani, ko so se menili o "rezultatu" referenduma in se je ta povsem ujemal s "kasnejšim" pravim rezultatom. Ampak tudi take prisluhe in obtožbe se z lahkoto ponaredi tako da.... O tem, da registra volilvec sploh ni in da so ljudje volili o večkrat pa takrat ni bilo govora ali pa sem povsem spregledal zadevo in zato še enkrat - vir te informacije se lahko najde kje?
 
I

Izbrisan uporabnik #488

Citat:
Uporabnik darjan pravi:
Tebi se zdi "referendum", kjer sploh ni bilo registra volilcev in ljudje so lahko volili večkrat, legitimen?

Očitno je legitimen, kjer ljudje še kar vztrajajo tam in ne želijo več Ukrajine, ki jih napada
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Švabi pa nikakor niso pozabili 2. svetovne vojne, kjer so dobili lekcijo in kjer so jih Ukrajinci sprejeli kot osvoboditelje in jim zato še kar pomagajo oz. EU = Nemčija pa kakorkoli gledamo, EUR = marka itd..

Želijo se širiti na vzhod.

Rusi naj čimprej naredijo red in postavijo novo mejo na meje bivših pokrajin, Krim je urejen, čudno, da tam ni bilo nobenih težav.
 

Pac_Man

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10. maj 2014
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Dimitrij Rogozin, od l. 2011 pomočnik premierja in pred tem ruski ambasador v natu je soustanovitelj stranke Velika Rusija (Великая Россия).






http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/rogozin-creates-great-russia/197235.html

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Former Rodina head Dmitry Rogozin and two other nationalist-minded leaders created a new party Saturday that appears to have a good chance of getting into the next State Duma -- if it can get registered.

The other co-founders of the new party, Great Russia, are Duma Deputy Andrei Savelyev and Alexander Belov, head of the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, which stages boisterous rallies denouncing the presence of dark-skinned foreigners in Russia. Last month, Rogozin joined the group for a rally meant to counter an opposition Dissenters' March in Moscow.

Great Russia will have a nationalist platform, it will not be an opposition party, and it has no ties to the Kremlin, its founders told reporters after holding a founding congress at the Izmailovo Gamma-Delta hotel in eastern Moscow.

Taki se pritožujejo, da so v Ukrajini na oblasti fašisti?

Kdo je naci?
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
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Citat:
Ampak tudi take prisluhe in obtožbe se z lahkoto ponaredi tako da....

Malo težje jih ponarediš, če jih objaviš preden je referendum sploh potekal. In se na koncu rezultat sklada.

Prisluh objavljen 7. maja:


Referendum je bil 11. maja.
 

Pac_Man

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10. maj 2014
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Malo sem pogooglal Rogozina:

Dmitry Rogozin’s clan: Visionaries and executors behind aggression towards Ukraine (1)

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Rogozin’s (born in Moscow in 1963) official title is a really influential one. He is the deputy prime minister in charge of the military industrial complex, nuclear power, shipbuilding, aviation and radio electronics industry, even of the border policy.
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The informal influence of Rogozin is well reflected by several formal structures. First of all, Rogozin is the leader of the so-called informal “Izborsk club” which helped unite a big part of influential Russian nationalists.

Truth be told, you won’t find Rogozin’s name among the club members. He was there at the very beginning of the club, but apparently decided to remain behind the scenes. Even the “Evrazia” portal, which is directly related to Alexander Dugin, one of the leaders of the Izborsk club and nationalist ideologist, wrote after the club’s inaugural meeting on 8 September 2012: “The club united such Russian patriots as Alexander Prokhanov, Mikhail Leontyev, Mikhail Shevchenka, Alexander Dugin, Nikolay Starikov, Vitaly Averyanov and Dmitry Rogozin.”
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However, at least half of the Izborsk club member can be considered members of Rogozin’s clan or at least his companions. Furthermore, the club’s main ideologists, editors of the ultranationalist paper “Zavtra” Alexander Prokhanov and Alexander Dugin, are Rogozin’s old comrades from the very early days of the “Rodina” party. And the real founder of the Izborsk club is Sergey Glazyev, a presidential advisor who is yet another of Rogozin’s colleagues and current companions.

The fact that this structure is called a “club” should not confuse one. It is more than just a “think tank” (so common in the Western world) because it has a much greater direct influence on government decisions. Formal or informal representatives of the Izborsk club in the presidential administration include the above-mentioned Glazyev and Putin’s assistant Igor Shchyogolev. Apart from Rogozin, the club’s ideas are also supported in the government by Vladimir Medinski, the Minister of Culture.
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The Izborsk club has also provided the ideological basis for Russia’s aggression in Ukraine with their manifesto “Saving Ukraine”, published on 13 February this year (more than a week before the revolution victory in Kiev). The main thesis of the manifesto became part of the public rhetoric of many Russian politicians and diplomats from the outset of the aggression. But we will return to that later.
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The truth is that Rogozin is forced to constantly compete for his power over the military-industrial complex, and sometimes literally fight with Sergey Chemezov, another extremely influential leader of a Russian government clan and head of the Russian state corporation “Rostech”.
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As noted above, the Izborsk club and the ideology of Alexander Dugin and Alexander Prokhanov basically defined Putin's “conservative doctrine”. Glazyev, Mikhail Delyagin and other economists of the Izborsk club, or at least the ones close to it, try to have a significant impact on Russia’s economic policy. The recently retired deputy minister of economic development Andrei Klepach is considered to be Rogozin’s man. The Ministers of Education and Culture, Medinski and Livanov, have titles that accurately reflect their influence in those fields.

Aggression in Ukraine: what consequences await its architects?

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Let’s start with the fact that aggression in Crimea started not at the end of February when it was all over the news, but in the beginning of February. Zhuravlev, the deputy of Duma and “Rodina’s” leader who was seen as Rogozin’s second-hand , established the “Slavic anti-fascist front” in Crimea. It is important to stress that this movement was created with none other than Sergey Axyonov, the leader of region’s “Russian Unity” party who came to power after the Crimean revolution.

Zhuravlev did not even try to mask his plans. According to him, the battle groups were created right away to “fight the fascist gunmen”.
He also made an announcement about the Parliament’s group that would review the decision to give Crimea to Ukraine that was signed back in 1954 by USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev.
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In this context the chronology of Axyonov’s “bringing to power” in Crimea is also very eloquent. On February 25 Zhuravlev made a public announcement about the general “anti-fascist reserve” mobilization for protecting Sevastopol and other Crimean cities. Supposedly there was a threat of “Maidan mobsters” seizing the government.

On the same day Zhuravlev flew to Crimea, and on the night from February 26 to 27 the armed men invaded Crimean Parliament and government. After a few hours Axyonov showed up in the Parliament and (supervised by armed gunmen) started inviting its members to a meeting where the Crimean parliament deposed the government of the former frontmen Yanukovych, and Axyonov was appointed a new prime minister.
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Alexander Borodai, who was the prime minister of the so-called People’s Republic of Donetsk and the former advisor of Crimean prime minister Axyonov, and who resigned in early August and was deeply involved in all the aggression not only in Donbass together with Girkin, is an old comrade of Rogozin’s clan member, “Zavtra’s” editor Prochanov, the author of the magazine and the partner in various other projects. Moreover, Borodai is officially mentioned among the experts of “Russian doctrine” that was prepared according to Rogozin’s request.

Ukraine's Security Services has no doubt that at least part of the Russian aggression against Ukraine was financed and organized by the Orthodox billionaire Konstantin Malofeyev. At the beginning of the bloody battles in Donbass they even recorded and published Malofeyev’s phone conversation with Girkin where they discussed the course of aggression.

Cirkus na Krimu in vzhodu Ukrajine je bil organiziran s strani ruskih nacionalistov/fašistov z direktnimi povezavami do Kremlina.

Citati:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dmitry_Rogozin
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-situation-worse-and-worse-peskov-says/499387.html

Upon US request, Romania has closed its airspace for my plane. Ukraine doesn't allow me to pass through again. Next time I'll fly on board TU-160.

The answer to Maidan comes from the South-East (Novorossiya) in the form of anti-fascist resistance and struggle for national liberation.

I would exchange all my posts in a second for the happiness to be in one trench with the defenders of Slovyansk.


Kdo je naci?
 

Kamele0N

YUGOslovanski mehanik Dmitri Mendeleev
23. jul 2008
42.393
5.667
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Pravkar na netflixu pogledal od pbs...battlezones...ukraine&syria...probite najdt..

Ruski naci Igor sam prizna da so bli placani od rusije...40$ /hour za netenje spopadov...
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
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"Branilci svojih domov", ki ne vedo imena kraja, v katerem so.


"Ni važno kako se imenuje, naš je!"
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Standardne ruske uniforme, beli trakovi okrog udov so bili že poleti identificirani kot IFF regularne ruske vojske.
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
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So v Vuhlehirsku, gredo na Debaljcevski kotel.

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Ukrajinci se borijo z regularno rusko vojsko, lokalni separatisti so bonus.
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.098
16.270
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A veš kaj pa meni ni jasno - če je tako splošno znano in z lahkoto dokazljivo, da so v Ukrajini dejansko ruski vojaki itd., zakaj potem druge države ne odragirajo tem primerno, saj gre potemtakem za napad ene države s svojo vojsko na drugo državo in menim, da če bi bilo temu RES tako, bi Ukrajina že zdavnaj dobila dokaj bolj konkretno pomoč kot pa ta, ki jo prejema. Če dam za primer prvo iraško vojno je šlo za podoben primer vpada vojske ene države v drugo in je Amerika prav na hitro zbobnala svoje vojake in opremo ter se odpravila "širit demokracijo" kot se sami radi izrazijo, tu v Ukrajini pa ne vem no, polno tega PR nabijanja o ruskih vojakih v Ukrajini pa nič od nič. Zdaj pa ali temu ni tako ali pa so se odločili za drugačno taktiko reševanja problema?
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
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Smo že govorili o tem.

Nihče na zahodu si ne želi konflikta. Evropa je še vedno vsaj delno odvisna od ruskega plina, Američani se že skoraj 15 let bojujejo na več frontah, ekonomija je v precej občutljivem ravnotežju, da ne začnem o žrtvah in morebitnem koncu sveta, kot ga poznamo.

Rusi se sicer derejo, da se cel svet spravlja na njih, ampak pravzaprav vsi hodijo po prstkih, da jih le nebi užalili.
En no-name bloger si lahko privošči reči bobu bob, ko si uradni predstavnik države, moraš pa gledat na realpolitiko. Ta je taka, da si nihče na položajih ne želi vojne.
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.098
16.270
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Aha aha, ta del te debate sem potem očitno spregledal. Mi je pa zgrešen tak način reševanja problema, da se delaš kot da je problem drugačne narave, kot naj bi bil dejansko. A jaz naj pa potem kao verjamem posamenikom za katere ne vem ali so pogumni pri objavljanju ali pa dobri pri zavajanju...to je kiks. Razumumljivo, da si nihče ne želi vojne ampak halo no, točno to imamo sredi Evrope, faking vojno. Enostavno je treba reči bobu bob in urediti zadevo. Razen, če nekomu ali nekaterim dejansko odgovarja točno taka situacija.
 

Kamele0N

YUGOslovanski mehanik Dmitri Mendeleev
23. jul 2008
42.393
5.667
113
Kjer slo komunjara je ze rekel pri osamosvojitvi..

Raje slab mir...kot dobra vojna
bonk.gif
 

Ytbnd

Guru
2. mar 2010
16.932
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Saj je bilo 1938 enako z Dolfetom, najprej Sudeti, nato 39 skupaj s Rusijo zasede&si razdelita Poljsko, potem ga pa na zahodu ustavil Atlantik, na vzhodu Rusi, ko so iz prej zaveznikov postali sovražniki.
UK/FR/USA tiščanje glave s pesek se ponavlja.
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
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Thomas C. Theiner je šel po VK brskat za privat fotografijami Rusov v Ukrajini. tieste o plači ne jemat preveč resno, ostalo drži.

https://twitter.com/noclador

Corporal Yarik Motsart, born August 18, 1989, of #Russia's 19th Motor Rifle Brigade, lost in #Debaltseve, #Ukraine.

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Pavel Fedchenko from #Ryazan, #Russia showing his salary for 3 months of killing while "on holiday" in #Ukraine.

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Alexey Usachev, September 2, 1984 from Stary Oskol, #Russia. Now #Debaltseve, #Ukraine: before 16th Spetsnaz Brigade

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Sergey Petrushenko, from Saint Petersburg #Russia. Another #Russian soldier, who got lost "on holiday" in #Ukraine.

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Vitaly Demyanov, #Russia|n fighter against #fascism making an anti-#fascist gesture while "on holiday" in #Donetsk.

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I could go on for weeks posting photos of #Russia|n soldiers, who pretend to be local #Ukraine rebels at #Debaltseve.

Oleg Lukyanov, from #Krasnoyarsk, #Russia. "Local rebel" at #Debaltseve & before Russian 76th Guards Air Assault Div.

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Vladimir Chernichenko, born Dec. 2, 1958, from #Kandalaksha, #Russia. "Local rebel" at #Debaltseve & friend of a cunt

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Ivan Suvorov, born October 8, 1995, from #Arkhangelsk in #Russia. "Local rebel" at #Debaltseve; before: #Russian Army

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Eduard Gilazov, born March 27, 1984, from #Ryazan in #Russia. "Local rebel" at #Debaltseve; before: #Russian Army

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Photo album of guy from Murmansk, who right now is a "local rebel" at #Debaltseve & before was #Russia police: https://vk.com/id191090605

Photo album of guy from Ryazan, who right now is a "local rebel" at #Debaltseve & before was a #Russia Army soldier: https://vk.com/id123959274
 

Pac_Man

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10. maj 2014
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Ne slediš. S strani USA ambasade. Ampak trenutno ne dobim nič, ker se ravno šef menja.

Še en, ki lahko reče bobu bob - Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, head of U.S. Army Europe:

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/01/29/gen-hodges-on-ukraine/22533577/

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Russia has denied supplying the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine who have taken over a number of cities and towns. Hodges compared the Russian denials to late-night sketch comedy.

"It's almost like a Saturday Night Live skit, except they're completely serious about it. But they say it so much, when in fact the only foreign troops in Ukraine are Russian," Hodges said, addressing reporters at the Pentagon via video feed from Wiesbaden, Germany.