Covid-19 Covid-19 Švedska zgodba
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Se spet sprenevedaš.
In koliko kazni bi dobil na švedskem, če bi brez maske sedel na stopnicah?
I
Izbrisan uporabnik 474
Da se jim tala kazni zato, ker protestirajo ni nobenega dvoma.Mah pusti mirsija. Po njegovo se tudi ob petkih popoldan Jenullovim kolesarjem tala kazni zaradi tega ker protestirajo
To je približno tako, kot da te npr policaj ustavi na mostu in ti reče, da skoči dol. In ker nočeš skočit, ti policaj napiše kazen po členu za neupoštevanja njegovih ukazov. Ali si kazen dobil zato, ker nisi skočil ali zaradi čisto nekaj drugega, kar nima veze s skakanjem?
Tako gre to.
Pri nas je dobil 400€ kazni. Brez maske. Koliko bi dobil kazni na švedskem?????
če pa ti je pretežko odgovorit, pa vprašanje, koliko bi na švedskem dobola tista drućinica iz Kranja, ki si je na prostem privoščila rogljiček. Pri nas so dobili 800€ kazni, koliko bi dobili na švedskem za enako dejanje ????
Aja? Po katerem členu katerega zakonika pa je protestiranje prepovedano in kakšna je kazen, če protestiraš?
To bi pa moral policaja vprašat, po katerem členu zakona je protestniku rekel, naj se odstrani iz mesta protestov, da je potem lahko napisal kazen za neupoštevanje njegovih odredb?????? Js ne vem. Pomoje bi tisti člen o prekoračitvi pooblasil lahko pobližje pregledali.
Ne ve se, po katerem členu je policaj zahteval od protestnika, da naj se odstrani z mesta protesta. Veš ti?
Jaz vem, da je na vsaki kazni napisan člen zakonodaje, ki je bil kršen in posledično izdana kazen. In glede na to koliko kazni je bilo napisanih "zaradi protestiranja, ki ni dovoljeno" bi moralo biti tebi in somišljenikom izjemno enostavno navesti ta člen. Lahko pa, da se piše kazni zaradi kršenja česa drugega (npr. kršenja epidemioloških ukrepov, kraje tuje lastnine, napada na uradno osebo, oviranja postopka uradne osebe, kršenja prometnih pravil, itd.) in ne zato, ker bi bilo protestiranje prepovedano, hmmmmm.....
p.s. zaključujem z offtopicom, tako ali tako ne bova prišla skupaj pa tudi če bi ti jaz natančno navedel vse člene in razloge za spisane kazni od katerih ni nobena zaradi protestiranja, ker to ni prepovedano.
p.s. zaključujem z offtopicom, tako ali tako ne bova prišla skupaj pa tudi če bi ti jaz natančno navedel vse člene in razloge za spisane kazni od katerih ni nobena zaradi protestiranja, ker to ni prepovedano.
Si bil zraven ?
Odkar vlada strašna epidemija, zaradi katere je umrlo 0.3% 80+ letnikov je vsaka kritika oblasti najstrožje prepovedana in sankcionirana.
Če protestiraš padeš na raven Trobca po Hojsevo.
Imaš tudi pri nas primer, ko so inšpektorji zaplombirali infrastrukturo podjetja, zaradi neupoštevanja ukrepov.
Evo, kaj je napisal Andrej Rozman Roza o členu, po katerem je bil kaznovan zaradi protestiranja, ki po tvoje ni kaznivo:
Ker je tole offtopic in sem tudi z mirsijem že zaključil ti več kot tole ne bom dogovoril, lahko pa nadaljujemo v temi o biciklistih:
Kateri člen katerega zakonika torej prepoveduje protestiranje, ki po mojem mnenju ni kaznivo?
Pa nikjer nikoli nisem zanikal, da protestiranje zaradi epidemioloških ukrepov ni oteženo in se je treba malo znajti saj se res ne moreš obnašat kot da protestiraš leta 2019 ampak kaznivo pa protestiranje pač ni. Vedno mi pa lahko dokažeš nasprotno z navedbo člena ampak to pač ne bo šlo čez saj ta člen ne obstaja.
Kateri člen katerega zakonika torej prepoveduje protestiranje, ki po mojem mnenju ni kaznivo?
Pa nikjer nikoli nisem zanikal, da protestiranje zaradi epidemioloških ukrepov ni oteženo in se je treba malo znajti saj se res ne moreš obnašat kot da protestiraš leta 2019 ampak kaznivo pa protestiranje pač ni. Vedno mi pa lahko dokažeš nasprotno z navedbo člena ampak to pač ne bo šlo čez saj ta člen ne obstaja.
6. člen
(omejitve)
Prepovedano je organizirati shode oziroma prireditve z namenom, da bi se na njih izvrševala kazniva dejanja oziroma pozivalo k izvrševanju kaznivih dejanj, ali z namenom povzročanja nasilja, motenja javnega reda oziroma oviranja javnega prometa.
Prepovedano je organizirati shode oziroma prireditve na prostem v neposredni bližini objektov, ki se varujejo po posebnih predpisih, če bi shod oziroma prireditev lahko ovirala varovanje teh objektov.
www.pisrs.si
32. člen
(neorganizirani shodi)
Če policija na kraju samem ugotovi, da je prišlo do neorganiziranega shoda, opozori udeležence, da shod ni organiziran po določbah tega zakona in da so dolžni upoštevati navodila in ukrepe policije.
V kolikor na shodu pride do ravnanj, zaradi katerih je potrebno shod razpustiti, ga policija razpusti.
(omejitve)
Prepovedano je organizirati shode oziroma prireditve z namenom, da bi se na njih izvrševala kazniva dejanja oziroma pozivalo k izvrševanju kaznivih dejanj, ali z namenom povzročanja nasilja, motenja javnega reda oziroma oviranja javnega prometa.
Prepovedano je organizirati shode oziroma prireditve na prostem v neposredni bližini objektov, ki se varujejo po posebnih predpisih, če bi shod oziroma prireditev lahko ovirala varovanje teh objektov.
PisRS - Pravno informacijski sistem
32. člen
(neorganizirani shodi)
Če policija na kraju samem ugotovi, da je prišlo do neorganiziranega shoda, opozori udeležence, da shod ni organiziran po določbah tega zakona in da so dolžni upoštevati navodila in ukrepe policije.
V kolikor na shodu pride do ravnanj, zaradi katerih je potrebno shod razpustiti, ga policija razpusti.
Oprosti ampak to niso členi, ki prepovedujejo proteste ampak členi, ki se nanašajo na podrobnosti poteka protestov. Sploh ta 32.člen je lahko v uporabi praktično vsakič, ko Jenullovi biciklisti protestirajo na neorganiziranem (neprijavljenem) protestu, saj se dejanski organizatorji bojijo morebitne odgovornosti, če pride do kakšne scene.
Ti členi ne dokazujejo, da protestiranje ni dovoljeno. Next.
Ti členi ne dokazujejo, da protestiranje ni dovoljeno. Next.
Dolocene mere vse do Aprila...
"We see certain signs of improvement in some parts of the country, but the situation is still so unstable that the Public Health Agency sees no reason to ease the restrictions," said Johan Carlson, the Public Health Agency's General Director.
Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said that the measures had not been taken lightly, but that they "are needed in order to save lives".
The current recommendation for upper secondary schools (gymnasieskolor, usually for 16-18-year olds) to switch to remote learning was extended until April 1st.
From Monday January 25th however it will be adapted so that schools may have some parts of teaching in-person, in combination with distance learning.
The decision is up to the managers of the school, which might be the municipality or a school board in the case of independent schools, and should be based on the level of infection in the area. Regional infectious disease physicians are expected to keep school managers up-to-date on their recommendations.
"It is not reasonable to have distance learning the whole time in the whole country when the situation is as varied as it is," said Education Minister Anna Ekström.
Asked why the decision had been made so late, Carlson said that it took time to analyse the infection data after delays caused by the Christmas and New Year public holidays.
See also on The Local:
Ban on post-8pm alcohol sales until February 7th
The ban on alcohol sales at bars and restaurants after 8pm was extended for a further two weeks, until at least February 7th.
Health Minister Lena Hallengren was asked what impact the limit on alcohol sales has on curbing the spread of infection, after state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell said on Tuesday he had "no opinion" from an epidemiological perspective.
"It's about the overall picture, we have taken many measures," she said.
Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said that pubs and bars were a risk environment, adding that individual judgment may also be affected by alcohol intake.
The maximum number of people who can sit at one table in a restaurant or bar remains unchanged at four.
Non-essential public services closed until February 7th
Municipalities and regions are urged to keep non-essential public services closed until at least February 7th. This includes for example swimming pools and museums. It doesn't apply to libraries, and many are currently open for essential purposes. Stockholm was one of the municipalities that kept libraries closed, but they will reopen from Monday, January 25th.
Employees at state agencies are also required to work from home until at least February 7th.
Face masks on public transport
The recommendation to wear face masks on public transport meanwhile was extended "for the rest of the spring". This applies between 7-9am and 4-6pm on weekdays, and is not legally binding.
Photo: Jonas Ekströmer/TT
Decisions every two weeks in future
Health Minister Lena Hallengren said that the government and Public Health Agency would review the restrictions and recommendations every other week going forward, unless there was a "dramatic change" in the situation regarding the spread of the virus.
"So the next time there will be a new announcement on restrictions will be in two weeks," she said.
Hallengren also said that this means the dates February 7th and April 1st should not be seen as fixed deadlines, but are the earliest that the recommendations could be lifted. Whether they are lifted, relaxed or made stricter will depend on the state of the pandemic.
Working from home 'the most important'
The ministers also emphasised the importance of everyone in Sweden continuing to follow the national recommendations in addition to the legally binding measures.
These include for example limiting social contacts, avoiding non-necessary travel, and working from home if possible.
"Making it possible for staff to work from home is the most important thing an employer can do right now," said Löfven, adding that working from home if possible was also the most important thing most individuals could do, and will be necessary "for some time to come".
"I understand that many people have limited their lives in the way that is required at the moment. You want to hug your grandma, you want to go to the football, you want to gather at a big dinner table again. We aren't there yet. That day is coming, but we are not there yet, so keep going," he said to conclude the conference.
Labour Market Minister Eva Nordmark said her understanding from discussions with trade unions and employers' organisations was that "the vast majority of employers understand the importance of and are following the recommendation [to ensure employees work from home if possible], but it is also obvious that more needs to be done".
The Work Environment Authority has also now been ordered by the government to carry out inspections of working environments where employees can't work from home, such as in shops, schools, healthcare facilities, and public transport.
What about the pandemic law?
Sweden has since January had a pandemic law in place, which gives the government increased powers to restrict opening hours and maximum numbers of people at shops, gyms, and public places like parks and beaches for example, and also allows for closures of businesses.
So far the government has not closed any businesses or introduced limits at outdoor places under the law. But it has introduced maximum limits of people (one per ten square metres of usable space) in shops and gyms.
"If these restrictions are not sufficient to avoid crowding and limit the spread of infection, the government is ready to do more," said Hallengren.
"We see certain signs of improvement in some parts of the country, but the situation is still so unstable that the Public Health Agency sees no reason to ease the restrictions," said Johan Carlson, the Public Health Agency's General Director.
Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said that the measures had not been taken lightly, but that they "are needed in order to save lives".
- EXPLAINED: What you need to know about Sweden's pandemic law
- Who's actually responsible for Sweden's coronavirus strategy?
The current recommendation for upper secondary schools (gymnasieskolor, usually for 16-18-year olds) to switch to remote learning was extended until April 1st.
From Monday January 25th however it will be adapted so that schools may have some parts of teaching in-person, in combination with distance learning.
The decision is up to the managers of the school, which might be the municipality or a school board in the case of independent schools, and should be based on the level of infection in the area. Regional infectious disease physicians are expected to keep school managers up-to-date on their recommendations.
"It is not reasonable to have distance learning the whole time in the whole country when the situation is as varied as it is," said Education Minister Anna Ekström.
Asked why the decision had been made so late, Carlson said that it took time to analyse the infection data after delays caused by the Christmas and New Year public holidays.
See also on The Local:
Ban on post-8pm alcohol sales until February 7th
The ban on alcohol sales at bars and restaurants after 8pm was extended for a further two weeks, until at least February 7th.
Health Minister Lena Hallengren was asked what impact the limit on alcohol sales has on curbing the spread of infection, after state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell said on Tuesday he had "no opinion" from an epidemiological perspective.
"It's about the overall picture, we have taken many measures," she said.
Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said that pubs and bars were a risk environment, adding that individual judgment may also be affected by alcohol intake.
The maximum number of people who can sit at one table in a restaurant or bar remains unchanged at four.
Non-essential public services closed until February 7th
Municipalities and regions are urged to keep non-essential public services closed until at least February 7th. This includes for example swimming pools and museums. It doesn't apply to libraries, and many are currently open for essential purposes. Stockholm was one of the municipalities that kept libraries closed, but they will reopen from Monday, January 25th.
Employees at state agencies are also required to work from home until at least February 7th.
Face masks on public transport
The recommendation to wear face masks on public transport meanwhile was extended "for the rest of the spring". This applies between 7-9am and 4-6pm on weekdays, and is not legally binding.
Photo: Jonas Ekströmer/TT
Decisions every two weeks in future
Health Minister Lena Hallengren said that the government and Public Health Agency would review the restrictions and recommendations every other week going forward, unless there was a "dramatic change" in the situation regarding the spread of the virus.
"So the next time there will be a new announcement on restrictions will be in two weeks," she said.
Hallengren also said that this means the dates February 7th and April 1st should not be seen as fixed deadlines, but are the earliest that the recommendations could be lifted. Whether they are lifted, relaxed or made stricter will depend on the state of the pandemic.
Working from home 'the most important'
The ministers also emphasised the importance of everyone in Sweden continuing to follow the national recommendations in addition to the legally binding measures.
These include for example limiting social contacts, avoiding non-necessary travel, and working from home if possible.
"Making it possible for staff to work from home is the most important thing an employer can do right now," said Löfven, adding that working from home if possible was also the most important thing most individuals could do, and will be necessary "for some time to come".
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Labour Market Minister Eva Nordmark said her understanding from discussions with trade unions and employers' organisations was that "the vast majority of employers understand the importance of and are following the recommendation [to ensure employees work from home if possible], but it is also obvious that more needs to be done".
The Work Environment Authority has also now been ordered by the government to carry out inspections of working environments where employees can't work from home, such as in shops, schools, healthcare facilities, and public transport.
What about the pandemic law?
Sweden has since January had a pandemic law in place, which gives the government increased powers to restrict opening hours and maximum numbers of people at shops, gyms, and public places like parks and beaches for example, and also allows for closures of businesses.
So far the government has not closed any businesses or introduced limits at outdoor places under the law. But it has introduced maximum limits of people (one per ten square metres of usable space) in shops and gyms.
"If these restrictions are not sufficient to avoid crowding and limit the spread of infection, the government is ready to do more," said Hallengren.
